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Have you looked at the new Motorola Razrs? They're great. 4" external display that is easy to use one-handed and can run any Android app (though some apps and websites struggle with a screen that small), and it unfolds into a phablet for when you want a huge display.

I believe Samsung has a new one with a similar form factor too, though I haven't looked into it.


The Razrs are significantly larger, heavier, and wider than the mini. And they add the complication of a flip phone. Not really comparable.

The comment I was replying to said:

> I’d love a phone that was roughly normal iphone sized when unfolded but was a flip phone à la Motorola razrs in years gone by.

So the Razr does seem pretty comparable to what they were requesting.


I think that's a poor analogy. I think the better comparison is it's 50% of the quality for 20% of the cost. Is that a win? I dunno.

I work at a significant computer security software vendor with 5-digits of employees. They provide AI tooling and training and encourage people to use it, but it's not like "use this or we will fire you and kill your children" like you hear from other companies. I use it a couple times a week, mostly for code review and sometimes boring boilerplate-type tasks, but it hasn't been a major overhaul in how I work. People here who obviously outsource their brain to the AI get negative reactions to that behavior.

If the company does try to turn the screws and force me to use it more, I'd rather exit the company (and maybe the industry entirely) than become a slop slinger. We'll see how it goes, but for now at least, I think this company has been handling it well.


> A real problem is that you might not even need to give these internet access. If your neighbor gives their TV internet access and it can establish a mesh connection then it might be able to exfiltrate data that way.

No TV has ever been shown to do this. Please stop spreading this rumor.


I didn't say a TV had been, if you read. I will absolutely not stop spreading the possibility, because it is in fact a possibility. This is more true now than it has ever been, because even if a manufacturer doesn't do this we're now in a world where AI could potentially exploit devices and make hops like this. The risk is higher in areas with higher population density though, like multi-story apartments.

We know that device connection sharing is a thing that has occurred and it's not unreasonable to see the risk of it coming to TVs.

Why, do you work for a TV company?


Partly it annoys me because the answer to the question "how do I protect myself?" is simply "don't connect it to wifi" and that's it. These rumors make it all complicated to answer when it's really not that deep. This isn't deep NSA spy craft, it's shitty software uploading logs and half-assed data collection to the Internet. That's it.

But if I'm honest, it's mostly because I'm disappointed that they don't do this. It'd be a fascinating story. Imagine the braindead balls it'd take to make a feature that insanely abusive, and how good the outrage out it would be to read. That'd be a killer story for someone to break, it'd be like the xz backdoor or the Snowden NSA leaks. Instead we get these dumb "Mew under a truck"-quality grade school rumors in comments sections and it's just so stupid and disappointing.

(And honestly-honestly a tiny part of it is trying to goad one of these commenters into actually doing the work to find someone who really is doing this, so I can read that story.)


The story is both a little overblown and a little underblown, just different parts of it. More people need to be thinking about the feature level of devices and understand that "off" doesn't really mean it most of the time. Does the TV need a camera? Does it really need a microphone? Does it need to be smart at all? The matter of whether it is abused is increasingly less important than whether it can be abused. There have been all kinds of clever abuses we've been lucky not to see over the past 3 decades, but I'm afraid that relative quiet may be over.

I still don't understand why there wasn't an absolute outrage about internet providers putting their own routers inside your network and blocking other routers by default unless you call them. Suddenly all these providers have managed hardware inside your network and if they wanted to, they could scoop up all of the LAN traffic.

On top of that, some of them even portion out wireless to people outside your network from the router you're paying for while increasing attack surface.

The big tech companies, the providers, the government and foreign adversaries are winning bigtime. It does feel like there's a little bit of hope that people are wising up about AI exploding privacy and security risks, so more people are thinking about the dumbest things which have become the norms.


The guy can't read, he only knows how to keep saying "there's no evidence TVs do this" over and over, even when you already said there wasn't evidence yet.

> If I’m not mistaken there is the possibility for the tv to connect to public/open networks to send this stuff without you knowing.

No, there is no evidence that any TV has ever done this. Please stop spreading this rumor.


> The fact they they can connect to Xfinity networks without consent is shocking too. For all those “just don’t connect the cable” responses, it still connects!

No, it doesn't.


I was wondering where this claim even came from.

It's from a comment, not even the article or the video it's based on. It's just the same internet rumor mill that's been going around for years, but more official because someone quotes it on an discussion on a news article because someone posted it in the comments of the article.

Anyone who's tried to test this theory has not proved it. A few claims in support forums are more likely to be people's guests or family just connecting it to the wifi.


It is LITERALLY in the video.

Where in the video do they say "We tested the TV and found it connected to an open wifi network" or anything to that effect?

What they say "Some ISPs provide open networks and some [unspecified] smart devices automatically connect to such networks". They don't say these TVs (or any TVs) are in that bucket. Given how much they've tested about these TVs, I'd say they'd have found and named any TVs that did that.

Honestly this was more a behaviour of very early wifi devices, I don't think I've run into such a device in decades, since people started talking about open wifi networks like they talk about piles of needles.

Honestly there's enough real misbehaviour documented in the video to go without making some up, and it's a little disappointing GN decide to allude to that claim without proof.


It's a longstanding, and obviously false, rumor. It would be trivial to prove that these things connect to open wifi networks to phone home, but no one has ever proved that they do that, because they don't actually do that. It would be a little harder, but still very easy, to prove that they connect to cell networks, but no one has proved that they do that either, because they don't actually do that either.

Keeping them disconnected from wifi is sufficient.


You're all over this thread posting this same thing but you admitted that to you, "trivial" means substantial reverse engineering.

"Trivial" to me means looking up the FCC ID of the device and seeing what kinds of RF emissions it is supposed to radiate.

Or, still trivial (but more expensive): Point a spectrum analyzer at it and see what kinds of RF emissions it actually radiates.

I don't need to open the box to understand what kinds of noises it makes.


Or even just realize that if the devices had this capability these companies couldn't resist using it to show you ads. Since these devices don't show up to date ads unless you manually connect them to a network you can be reasonably sure that they don't have a fallback internet connection.

Unless you have evidence, please stop spreading this rumor.


Please point me to the timestamp in that video that supports this claim:

> reports of TVs and other devices automatically creating mesh networks. Your disconnected TV could talk to your neighbour's connected one.



Sorry but it's up to the vendors to prove that abuse is technologically impossible (through open source software and cryptography). Closed source software should always be assumed to do the worst thing possible.

I'm afraid I can't help you with your paranoia. TVs just simply don't do this. It would be trivial to prove if they did. There's plenty here to be upset about without making up stupid conspiracy theories.

We've established that your definition of "trivial" involves complete reverse engineering of the firmware...

Why do you defend LG?

I'm not.

I just wanted to launch Notepad, dog.

Speaking of notepad why the fuck is notepad a onedrive app now.

I just want to take a couple of notes, I need to write down a handful of bullet points to remember the name of an NPC or two for the Pathfinder game I'm playing in, and notepad is like "set up your OneDrive account!".

Kiss my ass Windows


It's slow, too. On corporate hardware it can take several seconds for the "new" Notepad to open and actually start rendering keypresses. Instead I use Notepad2 and Notepad++ which are instant on the same hardware, like Notepad used to be.

IA is responsive. I had to cancel my donation earlier this year due to some financial circumstances and it was a quick and easy email.

However I believe they have an easy cancel button if your donation is associated with an IA account, too.


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