>- Do "normies" even know what's happening?

Absolutely not. Even to a lot of techy/nerdy people it's still just a chatbot that they sometimes use to help them at work. Even on here people will do whatever they can to downplay.

The lack of fucks given is staggering.

How many fucks should be given, in your estimation?

∀ε>0, ∀x: ‖s−x‖<ε ⟹ |fucks(x)| > 1/ε

It seems exceptionally unlikely to me that OpenAI would be "reading user prompts". More likely is a leak somewhere else. Obviously Anthropic/OpenAI are engaged in espionage stuff with each other. I am guessing Levent just mentioned something to someone at Anthropic and it got out.

Of course they are "reading user prompts" in the sense that it's being used to further training. That's why you have to pay up to opt out of that.

That's also why they refused to answer that question: the answer is obviously "obviously"!

if training is on, they are reading user prompts. training is on by default.

> https://openai.com/policies/how-your-data-is-used-to-improve...

They explicitly say that they use your "content" to improve their models. Considering they practically have infinite compute at their disposal, why is it surprising that they would look for juicy data in there to make them look good ? When they ingested basically the entirety of human knowledge without regard to the rights of others, when they burn books by the thousands, when their relentless barrage of bots have rendered the Web borderline unusable, why would they stop at that line ?

this is a highly marketable problem and specific teams at OpenAI were aware of specific competitor efforts. I would be surprised if this were happening on a large scale, but

1. Less than a hundred people in the world are working at this problem, 2. A significant fraction of those happen to work at competing hyperscalers, 3. Those hyperscalers repeatedly show themselves not to take user privacy seriously

I'm not sure what your points 1 and 2 have to do with anything. Both directionally increase the probability of hyperscalers also finding the solution independently.

> Those hyperscalers repeatedly show themselves not to take user privacy seriously

where? Any examples?

Have you been living under a rock? None of the big tech companies care one bit about user privacy in the US.

That's not an answer.

Any degree of tracking what people do is unprivate. Every single web interaction you perform is tracked. All LLM companies store all your conversations by default. Do you need more examples?

It's one of those questions that sets the bar so low, the conversation might as well not be taking place

Even if they claim not to use it, they're probably using it and hoping they don't get caught. They have zero ethics or morals, they just want to "win" to get mega-rich.

> do people really think OpenAI is snooping at people specifically

yes.

Rules and laws are for the poor.

> do people really think OpenAI is snooping at people specifically?

I'd be shocked if they weren't

Obviously, yes

Yes, that would be par course with OpenAI behavior

Heads firmly in the sand. I don't know how anyone who's paying attention could not be at least a little concerned.

What do you mean fable is useless?

(not op) It cannot be used to develop applications. Every application needs to be secure in some way, and any such mention in a review triggers Fable's upsell feature.

Agreed. I was trying to get it to review some auth refactoring in my app recently, and it appeared to find some vulnerabilities. as it was aggregating the results it was flagged and restarted the whole process with Opus 4.8 and all of my usage credits were gone.

Anthropic told me to use their `security-review` tool - as this was the exact scenario the tool is for - and it still got flagged.

I never actually managed to use fable successfully even once on a pretty standard mvc/microservice app.. It would always find the endpoint permission checks and revert to opus 4.8.

I also had glm 5.3 flash fix an issue that opus 5 could not solve. glm took 4 times as long and a sub-agent tried to cheat (sleep; echo ...), but in the end it actually solved the issue. opus 5 never figured it out.

I think the safeguards might be cooking the anthropic models.

I've been testing Fable 5.1 for about 6 hours between last night and this morning and it's performing pretty good overall, including tackling a previous IT sec audit I had ticketed, and completely analysing the codebase looking for vulnerabilities, generating a comprehensive report and splitting it into tickets. So far so good on that front.

Weird. I'm using it to do a bunch of work on something that manages security rules, with a bunch of sample data with spooky scary fixtures all over with "Mimikatz" and "CobaltStrike Beacon" and "Crowdstrike EDR" type stuff everywhere, including work to harden my system, and I've never been downgraded.

Mythos and Fable are the same cost, aren’t they?

Yes they are.

The OP doesn't appear to know what they are talking about. Fable can absolutely be used to develop applications. It's just that for security stuff I use Opus 5. Which is fine for most use cases.

I don't understand. I had to search for this thread with the youtube link. Does anything LLM related just automatically get a sea of downvotes?

you can't downvote a submission it's just that nobody upvoted it

I think the title was just bad, it should have mention "Black Hat USA 2026", since people appsarently assumed it was just the same story again without new info.

Having used an early kindle and a recent kindle, they are incredibly similar. One of the main innovations of the new models appears to be adverts you have to pay to get rid of.

Also gradually phasing out support of formats like mobi, in such subtle ways that if you open a mobi file you cannot go back to the library, but have to cold-reboot your device...

My current kindle is my third one, and is the last. I will never ever pay for a kindle to Amazon, due to its user hostility.

Oh, and also you cannot move ebooks between accounts, even not with a lot of friction, eg. support tickets, which would be a fair way to game piracy and unwanted lending, which was some inconvinience for me in a situation. Not a huge monetary loss for me, rather a reminder that when you pay to Amazon (or Valve, or any other contemporary DRM-burdened vendor) you are only leasing...

It's what I hate the most: I can't lend a book to my wife to talk about it.

Just US and UK have family accounts.

Minor nit: Steam doesn’t require DRM. That is left up to the game publisher.

My kindle from 2012 used to have ads you needed to pay for to get rid of. It was sold as separate product with or without ads at a time. I had one with ads.

I keep it offline in airplane mode permanently from 2016 and haven't seen a single ad in a long long time.

I have a similar one and I never bothered to pay to get rid of the ads or keep it in aeroplane mode.

The ads are only shown while it's off, they're static black and white images, and 99% of the time they're for books. Totally unobjectionable.

If they were in the actual UI and for stuff like cars and perfume I might mind, but they aren't so I never cared.

> The ads are only shown while it's off, they're static black and white images, and 99% of the time they're for books. Totally unobjectionable

Speak for yourself. Aside from the principle, some of us don’t want to be advertised to in the comfort of our own home/bed/while we’re camping or whatever. Ads don’t have to be actively flashing, spaz-inducing insanity to be objectionable.

Not to mention that by definition an ad like this WILL be seen and attended to, even if only momentarily. That in itself is also objectionable.

Customers have proven they'd rather pay less for the option to see ads. As long as you can pay for an ad-less experience, I see no problem with it.

Considering how difficult it is now to buy a TV without ad-infested “smart” software, I think we should all be grateful for the opportunity to pay to remove ads.

But what a sad world we live in…

There are cracks for older firmware and others for newer. You can have it online and adfree with a little forum reading.

You'll get a new ad if you take it online again, but they only persist for about a month or so before falling back to the generic 'read books' amazon ad.

I have my 2016 one setup without a password so when I open my cover the device unlocks, so I never really even see the ad unless I try.

I just realized I like how the ads in my paperbacks have been there for decades.

The fact that having ads on a product designed for reading is so dystopian. A great new term has recently entered the lexicon to describe this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

I'm reading a book by Asimov at the moment, printed 1989. The first page is an ad for a Robert Silverberg book adaptation of the Nightfall short story. Pages 2-3 are ads for other Asimov books. The last 5 pages are an excerpt of Edge of Eternity. And the final page is an advertisement for Voice of the Planet, a "5 episode TBS miniseries starring William Shatner and Faye Dunaway"

Have you never read a magazine or a newspaper? Ads have been in products designed for reading for your entire life.

And it’s an ad on the lock screen, not an ad interrupting your reading. I buy the ad free versions though.

Actually, the old Kindle had physical buttons, which I find more ergonomic when reading in bed

That's what your nose is for. (I'm quite skilled at advancing or going back by gently tapping the kindle against my face. It helps that I'm very nearsighted so it's kind of already there)

Same here. I read your comment from two inches away lol

Really wish my 1st gen Paperweight had split forward and back buttons on the right side.

But then I also understand that'd increase the price by 10% and only help right handed people with weak hands so... c'est la vie.

> But then I also understand that'd increase the price by 10% and only help right handed people with weak hands so... c'est la vie.

You can... turn them upside down to become a left-handed device. That way you can be weak-handed with either hand!

Only way to get buttons that are comfy on both sides would be to flip it screen out. That doesn't seem like a very useful position to hold a reader in though.

If you turn it upside down the left hand buttons will be way too high on the reader

The Oasis solves this - buttons are in the middle. Since you tend to not use the back page button much, it works pretty well.

I was skeptical of the "lopsided" design at first but it grew on me and is what I'd prefer in future devices from here on out.

The original Kindle keyboard had perfect page turn buttons and it’s been downhill ever since, though the Oasis is livable.

There are newer ones with physical buttons.

There are but it's discontinued. There is no current generation model with page turn buttons.

damn - didn't realize they discontinued the Oasis, rip

The "library" UI has also gotten radically worse over time (in my family there is a 3G, an early Paperwhite, and a relatively recent base model, and each has a worse and sparser UI than the last). The pages turn faster though, due to improved display/display driver tech.

And meanwhile the webapp's library UI doesn't even let you filter by read status.

> adverts you have to pay to get rid of

Those have been around since day 1 afaik - my second gen kindle had them over ~12 years ago

This wasn't my experience at all.

I tried Codex for a short while but quickly went back to Claude. Found myself having to revert Codex changes all the time. Maybe I had subconsciously altered my workflow/prompting to work well with Claude, but somehow wasn't providing Codex with the correct context, not sure.