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It's rumored fable is around that 10T number


If this is true, it's even more impressive that some of the open weight models that are <3.5T in size, approx 33% of its size, are within a few points of it in the artificial analysis leaderboard.


Not necessarily, there could be diminishing returns on mere parameters count .

There is nothing to say for example a 1 Quadrillion parameter model will be vastly more intelligent than current SOTA especially since new training data is largely synthetic today


That's precisely what he is saying, there is diminishing returns (or optimization left on the table).


I read it as it is impressive because smaller models 2.5T are squeezing similar returns as 10T models despite being 1/4th size not that there beyond 2T today the number or parameters do not have much meaning


or the latest qwen3.8 27B doing so well at ~1/100 the size of K3


What about general knowledge you can get out of it before hallucinations start?


I do not rely on any LLM of any size for general knowledge baked into the weights, they all hallucinate and that is the wrong way to hold them imo

I think there is some merit in that smaller models cannot memorize so much of the training data, i.e. that they are less likely to do copyright infringement, and by analogy not having memorized SDK / API surfaces that have since changed from the training data


> I do not rely on any LLM of any size for general knowledge baked into the weights

You have to rely on it to a certain level for agentic/coding work, presuming that's the general subject we're talking about here... For instance I recently encountered a project where it would have been a lot worse if the LLM didn't already know "what is" xterm.js and a bunch of its associated npm-related/node related software. If it was still smart but had to google and find results for everything it would have been a lot more time consuming and risked sending it down a wrong path.


for sure, there is a minimum size and knowledge base that is required to be useful

at the same time, search may find newer or better alternatives, and you can always specify specific technologies you want to use, I typically do this when starting a new project


Storing general knowledge in VRAM has always been a dumb idea in the first place.


It did OK on schlongbench v1.0 (test of a specific niche word that doesn't make it into smaller LLMs) but it sure does love to count words

https://pastes.io/r8F1AY8h


Qwen 3.8 27B beats Opus, Fable and GPT 5.6 by a comfortable margin on the AA-Omniscience Hallucination Rate benchmark.


GLM 5.3 is "only" 753B parameters. Much much smaller.


You want to take a look at the "Scaling Laws" paper, so you can extrapolate from these numbers.


This paper, as well as the Chinchilla one, aged like milk though.


And GLM is only 0.7T!

But these labs distill off the larger models. Both officially at the labs with the big ones, and unofficially. We need the giant models to get the smaller models.


Fable is most definitely nowhere near 10T.

The cost to train and infer that would be insane, even by today's standards.


Fable is strongly believed to be around 10T. The most conservative estimate I've seen is 8T.

Eg: https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-targets-mega-ai...

That reports Mythos as 8T and Fable as 5T, but I think they mean Opus as 5T, which is widely known, eg: https://eu.36kr.com/en/p/3760679047267075?ref=explainx

Both Grok and Bytedance are training 10T models.


The fact that Musk claims Opus is 5T to justify why Grok is far behind should be taken with a massive grain of salt given he's a recidivist mythomaniac.

Honestly if Opus is 5T parameters while being matched by the biggest open models that are at least twice smaller, it would mean that the US is already behind China in the AI race, despite a significant edge in compute.


The open models don't really match Opus.

For example I regularly do Fable+Opus agentic coding runs over 24 hours without intervention.

I think I've had GLM do a run that was a few hours. That's the closest I've had an open model come on that kind of work.


Even if they don't match current-day Opus in everything, they do beat 6 month old Opus, which we have no reason to believe it was smaller than the latest version.


Yes. And Opus goes a very long way compared to Fable, Anthropic isn't doing any favour, it's clearly just 2 models with a very different amount of parameters.


If Fable is seriously around 10T and Kimi K3 sidles up to it at 2.4T

That would be extremely surprising and a massive blunder by Anthropic in model design architecture ... which I highly doubt to be the case.


In real world comparisons K3 is somewhere between Sonnet and Opus. Fable is just a completely different (higher) level.

The long tail of tasks and queries is where you see the difference.


Wasn't Opus ~1.5T and Fable is about twice that?


Kimi K3 is a 2.8T model that's available at about 1/4-1/3 the cost of Fable from multiple providers on openrouter. The math doesn't seem wildly off.


The raw margins on proprietary model inference are rumored to be quite high though (they have to successfully defray the entire investment into model training and datacenter capacity for inference, which is massive enough). The API cost you're paying for the model includes that raw margin.


The Chinese have similarly high profit margins on Inference via their first party api


> The cost to train and infer that would be insane, even by today's standards.

This assumption is likely what has led to the erroneous failure.

Enterprise compute per rack has scaled multiple fold in the last 3-5 years. Alongside the training efficiency gains & datacenter scale increases, even 50T+ is well within reach at the top end.


Yeah, that's insane, you'd need to have many billions of dollars and buy up a huge chunk of the worlds memory supply to do that /s




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